Well I here many people say that hardcore gamers practically hate Nintendo now because of their focuses on spin-offs and games targeted towards casual gamers. And I also noticed how Nintendo can't keep up with other consoles/andhelds in terms of power. The Xbox 360 and PS3 all have better graphical capabilities than the Wii and PSP is completely superior to the DS/DSi. And the newest handheld of Nintendo, the DSi practically isn't even worth getting because of the lack of the GBA slot. They merely removed it so they can put in downloadable content which weren't even worth mentioning. If they wanted to make downloadable content, quit focusing on new mini games nobody cares about and release GB/GBC games as downloads instead. Why didn't they do that to begin with?! Sony is releasing PS1 games on the PSP, so why can't Nintendo release any of the BameBoy games on the DSi??? Because all they want to do is focus on casual gamers instead! I'm practically hating them also because it's taking about 3 years for Super Mario Galaxy 2, and during all that, they focused on a bunch of spin-offs! And if they wanted to focus on a new Zelda game for the Wii, why isn't a new one released already?! And Twilight Princess technically doesn't count since it was also on the GameCube. It's currently been almost 3 years for that game also, and it may even be 4 years depending on wither they'll focus on it or not. And as for the 3rd party games, Nintendo is practically scaring them off because of how demanding the Wii Controls are, and the fact that Nintendo holds all the records to best selling Wii games (Though Monster Hunter Tri is the best selling 3rd party game in Japan, you have to give Capcom credit for accomplishing that). Phew, so did I miss anything?

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Personally I was surprised Super Mario Galaxy 2 was announced so quickly, especially since it took eight years for another 3D adventure after the Mario 64, only for it to be remarkably lacklustre (okay, I commend it for being ambitious, but I would've been happier with just an expansion pack of 64 with what they originally aimed to include, such as riding Yoshi and whatnot), so I hardly see waiting a mere three years to be a problem. Maybe I'm just too laidback to get worked up over release dates (or not enough of a gamer anymore to care?), but I don't see the problem with waiting for a new game. Smash Bros. Brawl went through a ton of delays (and another four months for the European release!), but I'm happy it was a satisfying game and not just a slapdash job; I'd rather wait a while between each Zelda Zelda game if the result was an enjoyable game, rather than have a new one released each year that are all terrible (though given how A Link to the Past still remains my favourite and Twilight Princess bored me to tears, I don't think my views are relevant to this particular topic!).
I definitely won't deny that the DSi looks pretty terrible (and they're bringing out a new one already?) and the downloadable content is laughable (and even on the Wii I can't help but feel it could be better - where's the wider N64 selection?), you might want to elaborate on how/why the PSP is "completely superior" if you don't want to sound unfairly biased. =P
(See, this is why I don't really pay attention to modern gaming - it makes me a cranky, complaining individual. More so than usual.)

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I'm not going to say anything about Nintendo one way or another, but I will say something about release dates.

I am typically not concerned about release dates. Now, if there was actually a new game coming out nowadays that I might get excited about, then yes, I would be a little upset if it took 3 years. However, I do believe that no one should rush anything if it is going to detract from the final product.

On the other hand, I can see why people get upset over long waits for releases. 8 years is almost a decade... you don't have that many decades left in your life, sorry to say. Not only that, but if you have to wait too long for a game, then you'll probably be getting it at around the time that a new system gets out.

I never said anything about the release dates like your saying. WHat I'm trying to say is that if you were to take about 4 years of modern Nintendo history, almost all of those games released in that time were merely spin-offs. And conisdering how high quality some of the spin-offs are, you'd think they'd give us bigger main games, such as making Super Mario Galaxy have around 150 stars due to how long they made us wait and stuff.

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Gaming is taking a downward turn in general, infact nintys spinoffs is on a list of games i look forward to that is rather thin. Also everyone expects a lot more then they used to I think. For example for some reason people expected Mario Galaxy to somehow clearly show it's better then what is often considered the greatest 3d plat-former of all times... and are now disappointed it's only a little bit better but more of the same. Current technology really doesn't have all that much to add to gameplay, the gameplay ideas that worked now could've been implemented then or before. Why expect new ideas to stem from the same basic medium at a rate higher then they actually came back then?

That and Super Mario Galaxy seemed a little too easy for me.... I thought Super Mario 64 was harder, since it requires you to have 70 stars to get to Bowser instead of 60 like in Super Mario Galaxy. And the new control types kind of made things easier also.

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I am of the opinion that Nintendo isn't as good as they used to be. The Wii hasn't offered a whole lot that I've been interested in. Not enough to warrant my buying the system. If I had one I'd probably just play through the new Tales of Symphonia game at some point. Do plan to eventually do that with my bro on his wii anyway and I would like to play the newer Fire emblem game on Wii also. Other then that I'd have to say the best game so far is Smash Bros. Any other games I've played have been average or worse.

I don't agree with the casual approach either. I wouldn't mind so much their doing to stay alive but since that's pretty much their only focus now and the hardcore Nintendo fanbase of old has pretty much been abandoned I don't see the point of them continuing on. Their offerings that would actually please the old school hardcore fan are so few and far between now that I almost don't even care. I'm lucky to see 1 game by Nintendo I'm interested in a year now. Certainly I wouldn't like to see them go out of business but at the same time if they plan to continue on I wanna see more good stuff from them that's like what made them great in the first place....

I also agree that gaming in general is plummeting. I mostly play or hunt down older games now. There are currently two titles I'm looking forward to coming out. Phantasy Star 0 for DS and Sakura Wars for PS2. Sadly, that is it in the future that I see.

It's all a sad state of affairs but I don't want to see Nintendo singled out. I don't things games are really doing all that well in general. I only really care about some 3rd party games here and there, most of those just happen to land on Sony's machines, It's not that sony does particularly well for themselves.

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This comic pretty much represents modern day Nintendo perfectly.

But yeah, there isn't really too much else I can add to this discussion that hasn't already been said. In my eyes, Nintendo isn't the same company they used to be. They sold themselves out and pretty much leaves their hardcore fans the, pardon the wording, shit end of the stick.

There definitely isn't much that I'm looking forward to from Nintendo. There's a few games I want on their DS and Wii lineup, but nothing really new. Phantasy Star 0, Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations, Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles, maybe New Super Mario Bros and I've also been interested in the new(er) Wario game on the Wii. Nothing else I'd really want that Nintendo's consoles have to offer.

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

I'm going to say as I've had a chance to play a bit of it already, it seems to me quite a bit better then the ds new super mario bros. Lots of old references and a proper difficulty curve (until I beat it I'll have a hard time ranking it, it seems to fall straight in line with the first 4 (minus 2) though). Still gives you too much opportunity for items and lives, but no matter. I'm somewhat hoping that beating it once gives you some sort of hard mode... no halfway points and classic fully powered up to small perhaps, but i doubt it.

I think there are a lot of variables at work here, including some that Nintendo has no power over whatsoever. Let's look at the past console wars a bit. You had the Atari VS Mattel VS Coleco VS others battle, with an overlapping war against the emerging home PCs. Then you had Atari VS Nintendo VS Sega. You had the big Sega VS Nintendo VS odd other company consoles that people might never have known about (we'll put Tg16, 3DO, and others here). Then you had Sega VS Nintendo VS Sony VS others. More recently you have had Sega jump out of hardware sales, aligning with Nintendo much of the time (of all people), with Nintendo going after Sony and suddenly this monster Microsoft. The big thing here is to note the never ending state of competition, and the obvious tide of software that cycles over and over and over.

While you think of those names and they roll through your head (yes, the battles were mentioned mostly to send you back to those simpler times) is that development in general since the days of the Atari 2600 and NES has become a strange beast. Sony really owned development deals on the PS1 and PS2, and you could find just about anything you could imagine wanting to play for their consoles. This on a console family based upon work that had at one point been intended as a CD addon to the Nintendo's SNES itself of all things. The developer scene has tightened up and a lot of the places you might have otherwise seen quality choices from, eventually hitting Nintendo's plate, are gone. They have sucked up into one another, like big jello monsters, or gone out of business. Other firms have popped up, and others will continue to go out of business but have they truly matched the software of the past as of yet? Hard to say, but I am not sure they have.

Sure, the quality of the graphics and sound effects has changed, but have the games really gotten better in any way, let alone the overall percentage of them been innovative enough to match the needs and wants of all gamers? First party development on the Nintendo, and in-house content has really been a letdown but the question becomes, why? You have way more people playing videogames now too, as a lot of those who grew up playing them have had kids or grandkids since. Not just casual grandmas throwing out their arm from tennis, but dedicated consumers. Despite this crowd, we still get less than what we want, and this is whose fault? Developers putting out titles for Nintendo is part of it, Nintendo playing it safe and trying to maximize sales in a very murky pool is part of it, and a burnout is probably part of it too. Some of the great game designers have done so much, and from their interviews they seem to have slowed down. They are leisurely working on their next apps, but not on any fevered pitch, or with any intense drive that comes across. Excitement maybe, but they have full lives and duties, so how much of their day gets spent working on the next great title in this series or that series? You have people other than them having creative license, and perhaps the torch getting passed on to people with entirely different visions.

Maybe the fan base has been taken for granted in their mind, something like "they'll be there when we have something" and maybe not. The content available comes back to licensing deals and development concerns, guys in suits deciding what will work and what won't, and generally people who are not gamers pushing a vast amount of the water around the electrified kitchen. When those stresses ruled the lead designer's bottom line, and they actually had to worry about having a job perhaps instead of just being creative, things changed. You see more "safe" titles than ones going out on the limb, and much of the innovation now comes from small new upstarts or elaborate and well-planned (long development cycle) software.

As far as the hardware issue, I'm torn. On one hand Nintendo went the safe route and kept prices down on their new console since it was so much like a GameCube. It also meant old developers could mostly use the same tools and development gear, without having to completely reinvest. This ease gave us more software, but much of it being PS2 ports, sadly. That is a fault of the developer, not Nintendo 100%. Those developers could have created new apps, but fiscally they wanted a fast turn around to recoup what were probably past losses on software for the GameCube and the PS2. All our old games worked on the Wii, and old controllers, and fewer people felt completely ripped off until some void struck them. Maybe it was a title they wanted but never got. Maybe it was not being down with the control scheme. Maybe it was the graphical quality of the games versus the Xbox 360 and the PS3.

I have not bought any of these consoles for misc reasons. PS3 does not have enough software for my tastes, and is too expensive for me to swallow. Plus, I cannot play my PS2 software on the console now. Old PS3 models sure, but I am not going to track one of those down. Xbox 360 is finally cheap enough for me, but a monthly bill for online gaming and the dent it might make in our home network speed is not something I can take on until we move out on our own. The software array is wide enough that I can see myself enjoying it. The Wii has not grabbed me due to the price for what is not much newer quality games, the lack of any games I really have to play that I cannot try at friends, and a lack of true HD video output. My TV would rather have an HD model Wii, thanks.

So, in my eyes it's outside developers as much as Nintendo dropping the ball, dying developer icons burning out like weak stars instead of with a fury, and market conditions hosing the minds and budgets of would-be awesome game development cycles. Just my opinions though. The core gamers have spoken with their wallets part of the time, and ramble like this on forums, but others step-in and give the companies false positives on what we want. Many of us would buy our favorite series even when it sucked, so they win anyways, and regardless of how a title does their methods become even more cryptic and safe. It's the game, and they play it just as much as we play their offerings.

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Hey, I just thought of something. If Nintendo were to make an enhanced remake of Super Mario 64, pack it with the same features as the DS remake, change the star amount to 300, and include a co-op mode like the DS version originally intended to have, would it be enough to partially save Nintendo?

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I don't think one title will save anyone honestly. I also am not sure whether Nintendo feels they need saving. It depends what quantifiers you are judging them as being lost or losing. They have lost a bit of cash lately (as in they are not making as much as they were, but they're still bringing in the moolah), but most importantly to them they have been treading new ground and definitely new markets that the other console makers now respect enough to follow suit. Take the 360 avatar things. Those cute bastages would have never been a reality were it not for Miis and people's weird fascination with them. Changing their look just enough and piling in some "casual" games to attract the would-be Nintendo consumers shows that Nintendo succeeded if anything. The whole object of their war is to sell hardware, push software, sell accessories, and keep people interested in their brands. Nintendo has done that, based in part to a wider audience looking at them and throwing them some coin. How on earth would they have ever tried to bring 360 camera-motion controlled game structure or new PS3 camera stuff on the scene were it not for the winning Wii model? It sold, and both Sony and Microsoft brought out their water pistols.

Now, if you are saying Nintendo's saving means they look at producing games again that not everyone can succeed at or enjoy, but some of us will enjoy more, perhaps that will happen and perhaps it never shall. Right now, they are more concerned with market share, pushing hardware, and shoveling out software that mothers, children, grandparents, and the rest of us might buy. Their saving in these terms, this "going back to the old way" might in fact be counter to their current marketing strategies. Sure, they can include extra modes in games, some being for us and some for them, but that just eats up more development time. Maybe they will do that, or the next Mario will blow you away and you won't care. It will thrill you and put you in that happy place enough that you don't feel the need to want more immediately. Who can say?

I am one of those people that just watches it happen. More hardware sold and consoles in the home to me brings hope prices will drop somewhat and new featured consoles arrive, as well as a longer life is allowed the platform. Thus better games that more completely push the system's capabilities are allowed to see the light of day. If it takes Nintendo becoming more family-friendly for developers to continue to sink coin into development for all the rest of the titles we might like, so be it. IMO of course. It's like dancing with the cute pink bunny devil in order to get the magical heaven cake at the end.

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To be completely honest I like the idea of Mario Galaxy 1+2 better then I would like a SM64 remake with star overload. Especially seeing that I liked the galaxy level system of new content in the various level versions, instead of a bunch of stars in somewhat but not really hard to reach places. I suppose it makes it easier as you aren't "finding" stars anymore, but whatever, I prefer linear play for mario games.

--edit-- and to be completely honest, I find Mario 64 to be harder (I've 100 percented both games enough times) but only because of the cameras. Once you know where the stars are in 64 it's incredibly quick to just grab them as the levels are really quite small.

Sorry, but the likelihood of one game, granted a remake, saving a company that isn't really dying is pretty much one in a million. Most people will see it as this: "we've already seen Mario 64, twice as a matter of fact." I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a longer then necessary remake of the same game I played 10 years ago. And I especially wouldn't want it if it forces co-op (something dumb like 30-100 stars forcing co-op would be a huge turnoff for me, seeing as I tend to play games alone nowadays).

Besides, it's not like Nintendo has completely abandoned its original fanbase, you still see the occasional good game (by fanbase standards, not necessarily my own) every now and then.


That has got to be the best expression I've ever heard ever. XD

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The Local Video Gaming Lunatic

Recent stuff I'm into:

Watching: A Certain Scientific Railgun (ep.14, stalled), Hoshi no Kirby (ep. 71, stalled), Nazo No Kanojo X (ep. 8), Acchi Kocchi (ep. 8)
Reading: nothing

Like I said, the DS Remake was originally intended to have a Co-Op mode. Just look at some of the Beta Screens for the game and you should understand.

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I am really curious how I will find Wii gaming in general once I have my own console to mess with. Fiddling with other peoples' machines never feels the same, and I am always happier with my own stack of games and controllers to break if need be. I waited on the GameCube until they released that $100 silver Double Dash set with two controllers, and wager I shall wait for the same sort of deal on the Wii or again, get a future HD version should it come out. I have a second GameCube (purple model) that my brother gave me, but ideally will buy two more silver pads for my full Silver Cube gaming setup as he had some craptastic GameStop branded pads with his.

I only wish they had made some manner of Japanese bman accessory for the Cube to buy. I have the SFC multitap, but am not going to drop the cash on sfc bman head pads, the saturn bman pads, or the saturn bman head tap. It might be time to paint the Cube console up all fancy someday, once I have a full 4 official Nintendo pads.   I have multiple NES toasters available for just that purpose, plus extra carts of all sorts of weird consoles to make fake bomberman labels to stick on the shelving to see who is paying attention.

But yeah, I don't see Nintendo as dying anytime soon. They will ride the DSi line, release the next console line, tweak their online software distribution model, and who knows from there, right? Sucks we have to pay multiple times for what amounts to roughly the same game, but that's how they make their bread.  

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Considering how Nintendo only released the same exact White Wii so far, we might not be able to see a Wii like what your saying. HOWEVER, in Japan there is not only a Black Wii, but also a Black Wii Bundled with Monster Hunter Tri and a Classic Controller. WHY DON'T WE HAVE ANY AWESOME BUNDLES LIKE THAT?!?! Then again, Monster Hunter Tri won't hit the U.S. market until March next year.

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It's no surprise.

Sony and MS focus too much on power, GFX, and 'extras' irrelevant to gaming.
Nintendo is focusing too much on gimmicks and casual gamer (meaning shovelware).

None of the big three (or any major 3rd party for that matter) is focusing on actually making solid games for gamers. And before long, their constant sidestepping is going to cause the entire industry to become stagnant.

I don't even buy a lot of games anymore because its either 'GRAPHICS! GRAPHICS! GRAPHICS!' or 'GIMMICKS! GIMMICKS! GIMMICKS!' and they aren't sticking to the basics and building upon it. Nowadays I either flash cart, rom, or buy/play older titles. It seems that somewhere in this generation of consoles, they forgot what video games is about.

If they really want sales to go back up, they need to cater to both types of gamers.

Again, it's not all Nintendo's/Sony's/Microsoft's fault that there is a ton of uninspired software. Developers are the ones to blame in part. They need to get the so-called seal of approval yes, but unless there are obvious problems with the content it probably will get stamped so that the consumers can make the decision.

So, let's look at this another way. If Nintendo is only pushing this, and Sony that, and Microsoft that or this, it is in part due to the market trends and buying patterns of the consumer base that support the software cycle. Hardware gets sold for a loss. They have to make their money on software. So, when Joe Q. Public and all his zany friends buy a ton of gimmicky software, what happens? Of course. Developer A and Developer B full throttle production of similar gimmicky software, with maybe some Developer Z going out on a limb to make something different. This continues over and over and over like our blood pumping around our body. It's also a self-defeating cycle at times. The more gimmicky and uninspired titles that come out and are bought, and inspire more of the same, the more the shovelware floods the market. This gives consumers pretty obvious choices if they want to game at all, since Kid A and Kid B taken to Box Store A and told by their parents they get to choose 1 game only, will have to accept whatever is there or possibly not get a game. Some buyers are more patient but they very well might be buying the games at a discount when clearance starts to hit. This probably still inflates the perception that the games sold well, and thus, we need more of them.

Simplistic view of the situation, but a fairer one. Every videogame company involved in this industry makes choices that further affect the landscape of the future of gaming. This gimmicky phase of WiiMote-controlled casual gaming might be just what the industry needed to keep itself going, and allow more innovation to find the market. Sales would have slumped and more development houses gone under were it not for the successes of misc types of software, and strengths of certain hardware in the retail markets, both sides of the coin filling different needs of different types of consumers. The seals of quality from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all help keeping the real shovelware out of the stores.

Does anyone remember or read about the big videogame crash that happened in the 80s? Way too many games on the shelves, because at that time Atari just let everyone throw whatever pile of dung they wanted onto the machine. Some were obvious clones and ripoffs of other titles, and then you had licensed cheaper versions of Atari-developed titles (the Sears Telegames versions). Plus you had all the different consoles biting into each other's faces, angry zombies just wanting some piece of the meat of consumer spending. Plus you had the emerging home computer market with their own breed of computer games that were still pretty similar to console games control wise.

You all are witnessing a piece of history. Some day, little kids riding laser skateboards while they do their schoolwork via some weird pair of goggles will know nothing of the fact of how their gaming innovations started here. Mario in the future might well be some beatnik hep cat in a beret telling kids the proper societal laws, as he jumps around using his magic finger snap attack to "chill out" rabid turtles. It could happen...  

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Have I ever told you I want some of whatever you're on?