My friend Sakaki/Kiirobon/Bomber D. Rufi translated some Japanese segments from a Bomberman game - thought you guys would be interested: http://mangahelpers.com/t/bomberdrufi/releases/9644

He said he's planning on getting around to Kurobon's story mode soon.

_________________


AO3 | deviantArt | Tumblr
Bluesky | Twitter | Ko-Fi
Bombermanga | Bomber Base | B-Daman Now, Dog!

If I don't wield the bomb, I can't protect you. If I keep wielding the bomb, I can't embrace you.

I'm not fond of in-exact translations, I prefer stuff translated exactly how it's said instead of people going off giving a different translation- like the first few phrases for example. People that don't know japanese won't know the difference, but that's all the more reason to give an exact translation- not just not giving a crap since people think that other's won't know the difference.


Shirobon: What!? The first opponent is black bomber (huh)? (since there's a ka implying a question type)
Kurobon: Haaa, I'm not lucky- all of a sudden is it. (implying having to face white bomber all of a sudden)

Shirobon: Alright! I'm going to come at you seriously, don't withdraw all of sudden(don't suddenly withdraw). (pokkuri no toki mitai ni tei wo hikunayo, not that firmiliar with the word pokkuri, the way that it's worded in japanese it makes it almost sound like it's referring to 'like during sudden(implying sudden death) don't withdraw(literal: to take back your hand, meaning to retreat), just going with the most likely meaning)
Kurobon: I understand but, you'll hold back a bit right? (meaning to go easier on him)
Shirobon: What are you talking about! It's obvious that we'll do it with all our might isn't it? (didn't imply 'we' or a specific person, just saying that it would be done with with all one's might)

"skipping ahead"

Shirobon: What's.. this person(guy). (koitsu, referring to the other person/living thing. Since it's a penguin I'm not sure of the exact way to translate, 'what is he' could be another translation)
Shirobon: Could it be that you're also a tournament participent?
Shirobon: Want to dual? (wanna)
Shirobon: Could you answer me. (answer me, say something, respond to)
Shirobon: He was quite a rough opponent, even though he was someone that I didn't quite get what he was thinking.
Shirobon: Are you, alright I wonder? (wonder if he's alright, doesn't specifically say he but it implies that)
Penguin: "groan". (hogee, kind of like a penguin groanish cry I suppose)
Shiroban: Just what was that. (referring to the fight overall probably, since he fought with a penguin)


Makes you wonder how other people learn japanese, I spend the time to learn the exact meaning of words and sentences- and translate as such. While there's still a lot of japanese that I don't know, what I have learned over the years is correct. I just learn bits here and there over time, instead of spending a lot of time to specifically go out of my way and learn the entire language.

Kanji is something that I really haven't wanted to bother with, would rather just expand my dictionary knowledge on the language instead- so I mainly just know random common kanji's or can guess it depending on the wording of stuff and having seen it before. Most people that I know that are knowledgable with kanji are chinese, so they have the advantage of having learned many kanji that are the same as the japanese ones.

Well I suppose it's easier to just give a quick non exact throwdown rough translation that's just similar to the meaning of what's actually being said, unless the people really don't know the proper meaning for the words and are just guessing since it or only some of the words sounds similar to what they know or think it means- when people do things like using an m for the word senpai I find it annoying though.

_________________
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts."

First of all hello Razon! It's nice to see someone who studies Japanese and takes it seriously. Too many people think that it's a walk in the park or knowing a few anime phrases is all that you need.

Now I agree that you're right about my translation not being 'exact' on points. But I feel you're missing the point of translation. Moreover, you're making it sound like I've fooled everyone into thinking that I'm innacurate or doing it wrong. It bothers me as well that you said that you're only selecting 'some' parts of Japanese to learn while ignoring others. I want to learn every aspect of the language that I can, including vocabulary and Kanji. Sure I can't learn the whole language in this limited time I have on this mortal shuffle...but I want to get as close as possible.

The main point I wanted to address is that you seem to be missing the point of translation. Translation isn't just recording what is said in one language into another, It's being able to transcribe one language in a way that an audience that does not speak that language can understand. I believe the word that you're looking for is 'localization.' There's no point in writing word for word if it will confuse and alienate the readers. I'm not saying it's okay to make up words in a translation, or to change things around completely, but if what one is writing is close to the original and does it's job of informing (Or in this case entertaining) the reader then I feel that the Job is done.

Take for example the lines you put.

Shirobon: Alright! I'm going to come at you seriously, don't withdraw all of sudden(don't suddenly withdraw).

Compared to mine.

Shiro: Allright! Let's get started! I don't want you to chicken out if you start losing!

Now they are markedly different I'll agree. But when you and a pal are about to play video games with each other....or compete...which one would you say? Translation as I said before Is not always writing exactly what they say...it's being able to word it in a way that readers can follow. In this case I wanted to show that Shirobon wanted to have a serious match with Kuro. The original way you put it is correct, but somewhat awkward as I'm sure you don't talk that way in real life.

Kurobon: I understand but, you'll hold back a bit right?
To my: Kuro: S-Sure, but do you think you could lighten up on me a little?

There's almost no difference between the two. I think a reader will be able to discern that Kuro is a bit hesitant to fight Shiro if he's taking it rather seriously. The only thing I did was to make it a little less awkward...although to be honest yours works fine here too.

Shirobon: What are you talking about! It's obvious that we'll do it with all our might isn't it?
Mine: Shiro: Huh? What are you talking about?! We gotta put our all into this right?

Now I noticed that you said that 'didn't imply 'we' or a specific person, just saying that it would be done with with all one's might' Did you know that Japanese rarely addresses the 'I or You' like English does? It's always implied who the speaker or the object is supposed to be. Just because Shiro doesn't say 'Us' or 'Me' doesn't mean he's not talking about them. A whole Japanese conversation can lack 'You' or 'I' simply because it's a language that doesn't rely on pronouns much. And like the one before it, there's no difference between both of ours. I continue to advocate that it's important to translate in a way that people who do not understand the language can follow along without it being awkward. I think again if you were competing with a friend you wouldn't say 'With all of our might' Right?

This post is getting long so I'll stop here. I'm not at all saying you're wrong, nor am I saying my translation is perfect. I agree that incorrect translations are annoying, and understand your concern. But the way you phrased it makes it sound like I'm completely off when as you can see from my examples and explanation that I am not. If you don't like my 'localization' it's fine. But being condescending is not the right way to adress the issue. If you'd like to talk to me about changing things or suggest how I can do it better I'm always open to critique.  

Thanks for your efforts there dude. I don't have Saturn Bomberman Fight! yet but it is something I have considered getting over the years and will probably do so eventually so I'll keep this in mind when that day comes!

_________________

Nice to meet you too, indeed many people think that it may be easy to learn the language. When it comes to dislikes, I'd have to say that I also don't like japanphiles. They seem quite immature, and they give off the impression of a poser that doesn't respect the language- they certainly don't seem to be the kind of people that would take it seriously and learn anymore then the few basic words that they know.

As for learning the language, it's not like I'm skipping or ignoring stuff. I'd like to learn the entire language too if I had that kind of time, I just said that I was choosing to spend time learning the words before the kanji since there's too much to kanji. Bit by bit I do intend to learn it though, learning an entire language 100% is near impossible or very difficult- besides vocabulary even the japanese don't know near all of the ridiculous amount of kanjis.

I know what you mean about some phrases sounding odd when translated, and I know about the 'I', 'we' and 'you' and such not needing to be used along with a lot of japanese. I was just pointing it out for the people that were reading it that don't know japanese, and to try and better properly explain what was being said in the sentence. As for phrasing stuff differently, there's nothing too wrong with localizing something so that it doesn't sound odd. The point is to convey what was said while exact or very close and also not sounding odd, something like bringing localized phrases into the translation starts to sway from what was actually said a bit(for example 'hitting the nail on the head')- though it doesn't hurt to change it a bit.

However when it comes to changing sentences completely from one thing to something else, if you've watched a lot of animes or jdramas then surely you've come across one that's translation was just so far off for near all of the stuff- that it would of taken away from the show if you didn't know what was actually being said. Many times phrases are changed needlessly when they sound just fine and probably better with their actual meaning, I've thought many times when watching subbed stuff that if I was subbing it then I would of translated it properly. Fansubbers and people that translate stuff are doing it for free though, so you can't complain about it- if they were being paid then that would be another story. Most subbing places stray from exact translations to try and make it seem more enjoyable for the audience probably(unless it's mis-translated or they just don't know what's being said), localizing it is what you'd call it in most cases I suppose. For the people that don't know japanese, besides them possibly hearing the same phrase translated differently each time- it isn't anything for them to worry about really. Something like that does show people that the translation isn't proper though, more noticable if an entire show is a language- compared to there being some korean in a jdrama for example and it's not so often.

Well I prefer exact as can be but that's just me, if you asked people you'd think that they'd want their translation to be 'exact and changed to sound right' over 'changed around a lot and starting to stray from what's actually being said', though places will sub stuff and translate how they want- so what it comes down to is if you want to know what's actually being said then you have to learn the language.

_________________
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts."

This is true. Again I didn't have a problem with what you were saying as much as how it sounded when you said it. But after reading this post I realize that you didn't mean to sound condescending, and maybe I was hasty in my response. I'd like things to be as close to the original as possible, but when translations stay close to the original but stop making sense in another language, they're not effective. Sure I could type up exactly what was being said in the Videos I translated, but what would the point be if they came off awkward and stiff?

The minute you begin translating something, you've got an audience in mind. Think about it, If you didn't feel like sharing something with someone else who may not understand the language, you would simply keep it to yourself. But once you start translating, it's because you want to share. But if you start using Jargon and technical terms that only you as the translator or people in the original language understand, then the point of translation is lost.

I'm sure people would prefer exact over slight 'localization' but when they say that sometimes they forget some things, such as some phrases don't make sense from language to language. The Japanese especially are fond of puns that don't carry over in English. Another thing is sentence and word structure, and lastly the fact that no one wants to read a clunky translation that is theoretically 'exact' but offputting because the English is more a Replicated Japanese than actual English. I feel that slight localization is fine, and even putting in English idioms and phrasings are fine too, just as long as the original meaning is conveyed. I agree that it is wrong to completely change around a phrase just because one doesn't understand what is being said (or written), and that translation should try to be exact when it can be...but sometimes it's impossible to get it exact, or it is possible to....but there is a more effcient way to phrase it and get the point across. Like the Japanese phrase 'Nani mono da?!' Which literally means 'What is?!' That phrase is often used when the speaker encounters a person he or she doesn't know. YET it sounds like he or she is reffering to an object or animal. Would it be best to translate it directly as 'What is that?' when we know the speaker is talking about another human being or would it be better to write it as 'Who are you?' That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. If you wanted to add emphasis it can be translated as 'Who the hell are you?!' Although there's no hell or who in the sentence. Which sounds less clunky? The direct 'What is?!' or the slightly localized 'Who are you?!'

All I'm saying is translation is usually for an audience, so you have to think of them and their understanding when working more so than being exact. For if it doesn't reach the audience, then no matter how exact the translation is...it has failed.

Well what should be translated is what you know they're actually trying to imply, instead of just the exact literal meaning of the sentence- since there's lots of odd phrases like that in japanese that mean something other then their literal version. I don't think that a translation has failed as long as you've conveyed a translation that's understandable in some way, so that some of the audience isn't just hearing gibberish and not knowing what's going on at all. However it's obviously better to have a translation that makes more sense and that more people can understand, I think that that's most peoples aim- which is to make their fansubs as quality as possible.

Very close subtitles can just be more of a privilege really, for people that know the language we hear certain words and it just matches with it and it seems right. Which let's us sit back and relax more, but if they stray a lot then it involves more thinking on our part to translate it properly.

_________________
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts."

Yep that's how I try to go at it. (This Bomberman Fight cutscene thing is not the first thing I've translated...in fact I translate 3 different manga weekly.) I sit down and ask myself 'how would I say this phrase in English?' 'How would my friends say it?' 'How do we convey it in conversation?' Yes I know there's a cultural disparity in thinking this way as it is Japanese to English, but for the most part my audience would be an English speaking one, so I use phases and idioms that are native to that. In some cases where an exact word to word translation is needed I use it, and maybe add a note.

I don't sit listening to subs looking for mistakes either, I listen and if something is a bit different than what's being said I try to think about what's being conveyed and what the translator was thinking. If it makes sense although it's a bit different then I'd say it works out. I don't think the translation has failed if the audience gets it, and sometimes to get that understanding you have to change how things are phrased.

In any case I'll be getting to Kurobon's in a few days maybe...so I hope you'll look forward to it.  

Oh, wow - great stuff! I really wasn't expecting anything to come from those videos so quickly! And although vaguely related, I love hearing about the thought process made when translating something - I have zero language skills and do nothing more than very basic translations (though I've been giving a shot at translating a five-page French comic, just as a test to see how I fare), but hearing of what goes on behind it just interests me a lot.

Regarding the discussion of how a translation should be done, I can understand Razon's point of retaining how the original sentence is structured, but since I'm a bit of a language nerd, I also like languages to be used 'properly' (for lack of a less-derogative term!). I'd say the examples you gave would be more of a transliteration, which, of course, is more or less how the original sentence was structured, but I prefer Rufi's work due to simply working like an English sentence should. The same meaning is supplied with both, but the transliteration often leaves me going "buh?"
Of course, this is coming from the person with self-proclaimed zero language skills. I shouldn't butt in!

Might I use the translations for my Saturn Bomberman Fight!! shrine, when it's finished, Rufi? I'll probably tinker around with them a touch, but I'll give you full credit, of course. It'd also be convenient to have the original text transcribed for anyone who wants to make use of it, or whatever, if it's not too much to ask. I'll be sure to record more story modes soon enough!

_________________

Wow, awesome stuff!

Someone should make a patch... *runs*

_________________
Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

http://mangahelpers.com/t/bomberdrufi/releases/9746

Forgot to post it here ^^;;; Kurobon's translation is done! I'll probably do at least two or three of these this week so stay tuned!





You're more than welcome too. Sorry for not replying sooner...I sign up so many fourms and forget about my membership. :-P It's probably better to reach me on Youtube. But feel free to use them as you see fit.

Yay! ^_^

_________________
Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

Nice! I like how the ending speech kind of coincides with Kuro's kind of shift in personality for the later games.

....Seems like they made Golem Bomber the idiot in this one.

http://mangahelpers.com/t/bomberdrufi/releases/10444

Reusha's story complete! One more tonight so hang in there Bomber-fans!


Post 2


Kotetsu's turn!

http://mangahelpers.com/t/bomberdrufi/releases/10445

(Ignore all of my ramblings if you want....)

And this is QFT. I wouldn't mind if someone used my translations as a patch for the game...though I say we should take it a step further, and see if we can't get a fandub running. :-P It would be a huge Bombermanfandom undertaking! (And maybe a little fun!)

Who's next? Could it perchance be Golem?  

And of course, thanks for working hard on this!

_________________
Metroid: Other M - As in "There's the good Metroid games... we chose to do one of some Other Make altogether."

Hahaha, Kotetsu's story is actually quite amusing. And the Baguro part, that just struck me as funny.

Awesome work! And thanks as well!  

I am out sick today and on muscle relaxers for pain, so I will try to read over these finally! Great work Ragey! I realize the transliteration vs pure translation thing is an issue for some, but I am happy to have "something" to look at that I didn't have to struggle over myself.

Thank you very much.  

If anyone has good verbal recognition skills, feel free to transcribe these Bomberman Fight! BattleMode victory videos and repost to their own YouTube channels and reply to them. The details for each video tell what characters appear. The names may be wrong but I used Alex Eaton-Salner's fansite for them, so...  

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pMpkEBMcUU

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FsCYA7sBzg

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsfEZG8BYPg

Yes, I still need to work on the PDFs of the Saturn manuals. You will see scans of the character data on those videos. I have scans for you to pour over as well if you don't yet have the manual yourselves. Maybe today if the muscle relaxer does not knock me out too early.  

_________________

The relationship Kotetsu between Honey is... interesting, to say the least! I wasn't even aware they had personality until reading that, though considering I can't remember any other game where they actually talk, I suppose that's understandable.

I admit I'm interested in seeing the stories of the new characters like Mami, Pump and Rajibom, though mostly because I want to know what's their deal is; I don't think Raji appears in any other game.

_________________

     

LOL Some of these are priceless. I would love to see real people in cosplay outfits acting these lines of dialogue out, both in English and Japanese.   It would very nearly be the most hilarious YouTube bomberman thing I have ever seen.

Hell, you could turn this into a comic of sorts even. Draw up facial expressions to each line, showing the before battle bravado and post battle failure of the misc characters. Man that would rule. I am already too taxed with my own Bomberman comic idea, about Bomberman losing his job and becoming a Freeter like GoldenBoy. There's more to it and I've done some storyboards and test artwork, but not worked on it in ages. He goes by Eric in it, a nod to the early Eric and the Floaters game, plus to avoid any legal problems.  

Thanks again, Ragey. Also thanks to Razon for misc notes. You both are awesome.  

_________________

Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing Panpu and Rajibon's data also. Rajibon is one of my favorite characters to use in Fight! Do you have the manual/scans Ragey or are you using a rom in the emulator to play it?

_________________