Bomberman 2 makes me angry(my friend has it)... the only level i can really stand to play multi player is the original... and the tag team mode sucks, as you are forced to have even teams. AI is terrible on its highest level, atleast a set of computers in super bomberman 3 could give me a run for my money. i thin i'm gonna buy super bomerman 1, if i remember i liked it better.
I too liked Super Bomberman 1 better. The throw system in SB2 was stupid as were the levels (except Original). SB1 had tons of good levels (Original, Power, Speed, Tunnel Zone). The AI is pretty much easy to kill in all of the games but that's because I'm use to playing humans in Bomberman Online or Bomberman Live.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
If we are going to start arguing about the stages and which game is better, here is what I think:
I actually played Super Bomberman (1) first, butthe second one seemed more fun to me. I love both, but the second one had something to it that the first one was horribly missing. It's one of those things that are just hard to explain.
But some of the good things about Super Bomberman 2 were that the bombs were colored to match your bomber, and that allows for a lot of good strategy. If you pay close attention, you can know exactly how far the other person's bomb will explode, and use it to your advantage. For example:
O===>*
Key:
O is the bomb
===> is how far the fire explodes
* is the bomber standing right next to the fire and not getting harmed in the least.
I am the type of person who loves to do advanced things like that, and jumping over an explosion in stage 10.
Also, everybody has their own playing style, and preferred stages, but I don't think the stages in SB2 were bad. The standard stage was of course awesome (I always play on that any bomberman game...) and Stage 9 was not bad either. Stages 3, 5, and 10 were fun to play on as well. The other stages in the game weren't necesarily bad, just not as impressive as 1, 3,5, 9 and 10.
As for the computer players, no computer has been able to stop me for very long in any Bomberman game. I play humans way too much, and win quite a bit.
Anyway, I'm not saying 1 was a bad game. It was a lot of fun, but several of the stages would make me kind of mad. The stage with the spotlight that keeps moving around in particular. When the spotlight isn't on a certain area of the map you more or less have no clue what's going on there unless you see an easier to see character such as white bomber moving around. Black bomber can go nearly un-seen in the shadows which gives him a huge advantage over the other characters. It's a bit un-fair for the lighter color bombers, and plus the spotlight moving gets annoying.
The stages I liked on Super Bomberman were:
Western Zone
Duel Zone
Flower Zone
Power Zone
Speed Zone
I also sometimes liked Tunnel Zone. Fun stage, but not my favorite.
Having color matched bombs doesn't really add any strategy. Usually a good player can tell which bombs are/aren't theirs anyway. Standing at a certain distance from a bomb move won't change whether the bombs are black, blue, red or soccer colored. The same move can be done regaurdless.
When it's all said and done, SB1 had more good playable stages than SB2 did.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
The AI is pretty much easy to kill in all of the games but that's because I'm use to playing humans in Bomberman Online or Bomberman Live.
Yeah, but in 3/5 me against a 4 ai team was atleast challenging (and i was somewhat reasonable in bmo), in 2 the ais sometimes don't even move from their starting locations much, and they trap themselves with no outside influences pretty often, even on their highest level. The ai on its highest level in 2 barely poses a threat to someone who's only been playing with human players for a few dozen games.
As for the colors, i never worked that into my strategy, i just played using the same habitual distance recognition i gained in bmo.
And did you really like level 10? that may be my least favorite level in any bomberman game i've played. Theres not enough area for explosions and you can escape from almost anything easily. Its almost impossible to force a win or set traps there. It turns into a match of "who can jump around randomly better"...
(--edit sidenote-- and i think its safe to say that most of the people on this board are both some of the better players in their respective areas, and better then the ais in the bomberman games, its kindof a pointless statement to make on a bomberman fanboard)
Exactly, there's no point in talking about AI on here. The AI on Super Bomberman 1 was rediculously easy as well. To demonstrate let's take a look at the picture below.
Say if I and a computer were standing in the same spot as that guy on the bottom right, hiding safely from 2 bombs that are about to blow up in the 2 vertical corridors on either side. If I were to lay a bomb in our position, the AI would stupidly run out into the corridor and get blown up. The same could be said if there was an AI bomber in the same position as yellow on that map. If yellow lays a bomb there, the AI will run into the flame.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
Having color matched bombs doesn't really add any strategy. Usually a good player can tell which bombs are/aren't theirs anyway. Standing at a certain distance from a bomb move won't change whether the bombs are black, blue, red or soccer colored. The same move can be done regaurdless.
When it's all said and done, SB1 had more good playable stages than SB2 did.
I can tell which bombs are mine, but it makes it easier to know how far each characters should go.
I can do what I was talking about without colored bombs, but it works better with, and can be used for good strategy.
Ven wrote:
When it's all said and done, SB1 had more good playable stages than SB2 did.
Also, SB1 had more stages than SB2 did. 1 did have more good stages, but the stages that were good in 2 were better than the good stages in 1. Naturally you would expect SB1 to have more fun stages because it has 2 more stages than the second game does.
fireball87 wrote:
And did you really like level 10? that may be my least favorite level in any bomberman game i've played. Theres not enough area for explosions and you can escape from almost anything easily. Its almost impossible to force a win or set traps there. It turns into a match of "who can jump around randomly better"...
Actually, I do really like it. It's far away from the normal style of Bomberman play, but it's also a lot of fun. However, it is hard to set traps like you said until you have spent hours learning and testing all kinds of tricks and strategies (which is what I did) Possibly the most fun and rewarding trick is to jump right before a bomb blows up, and land after it has exploded. However, if you jump early you land in the explosion, so it's a hard trick and I'm sure I'm pretty much the only person who uses it. The first time I did it was on 12/21/03 (yes I actually wrote that down) and I've done it several times since then. Still not perfect, but I'm mastering it still, and I'm sure one day I'll have it down. When I perfect the skill I'll put a video on youtube sometime so I can show it off.
Basically level 10 isn't a good level until you have spent time on it. And I have.
Say if I and a computer were standing in the same spot as that guy on the bottom right, hiding safely from 2 bombs that are about to blow up in the 2 vertical corridors on either side. If I were to lay a bomb in our position, the AI would stupidly run out into the corridor and get blown up. The same could be said if there was an AI bomber in the same position as yellow on that map. If yellow lays a bomb there, the AI will run into the flame.
The computers have good AI for dodging Bomb Blast if they're set to "Hard" and in 'Dodge Battle' from Bomberman Generation... o-o;
Ofcourse, that might be because of those yellow lights on the floor used to mark what area's will get blown up.
They're still not smart enough to dodge if you punch or kick a bomb over to them, then it blows up in another bomb's explosion and whatnot... >>"
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Lend me your power!
Also, SB1 had more stages than SB2 did. 1 did have more good stages, but the stages that were good in 2 were better than the good stages in 1. Naturally you would expect SB1 to have more fun stages because it has 2 more stages than the second game does.
Oh please....
Which level in all of Super Bomberman 2 is as good as the Power Level in Super Bomberman 1? The best level in SB2 is just the plain ole classic level.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
Anyway, um, regarding Super Bomberman 2, I've actually never heard anyone bash it before. Usually you hear the same old, "Super Bomberman 2 is the best Bomberman on the SNES!" So it's kind of surprising to me, but now that I hear this, I can see where all of you are coming from. Although my least favorite stage in SB2 was the ice one (I hate ice stages, you slide all around and end up toasted), but I didn't really have any qualms about the others. 10 wasn't really that bad, it was just.... different. It's a big departure from the regular Bomberman strategy you'd normally employ in the other stages, but that's not to say that it is impossible to develop a strategy for it.
2 was a nice stage, but I haven't played on that or 4 in years. Those two stages I just rarely spent time on, but I liked them. 10 also was a bit different, but that's not all a bad thing because it allows you to still be playing bomberman, but have a completely new kind of fun. A very good level for strategies if you took the time to mkae them. Plus the stage looked nice...
And yeah, usually you hear SB2 is great only, so I was kind of suprised to see some of the posts I saw.
For comparison let's look at Bomberman Online. Most people say the best levels are Normal Road or Normal Space level. The majority play Normal Road because the Space level is only available once awhile on Random. I bet if Space was choosable from the getgo, most would just play that or at least put it right up there with Road. Power Zone is like the space level.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
I wouldn't say Power Zone is the best. Eliminating all the soft blocks and giving everyone full powers changes up a lot of the strategy. Now, you can't trap people against soft blocks, you must catch them off guard, trap them between bombs, or knock them out. Also, it levels the playing field as far as powerups; in a regular Bomberman match players must learn to make do with what they're given, so people usually end up with different abilities.
But then again, I personally don't think any level is the absolute best. Adding and subtracting elements changes things more than you'd think, when you really get down to it.
The best test of skill is when the playing field is even or relatively even.
That's why most people in Bomberman Online played Normal Road because speed was evened out. In most cases, it didn't come down to trapping people in soft blocks, the true battle came when all the soft blocks were blown up. Like in this video
A lot of the times in slow levels, someone may get a good amount of speed over someone else and then you end up with someone being 3-4 times faster than someone else. This is especially true in Bomberman Live. Most of the good people in there play Bombing Run.
So usually someone who's good enough to kill you in an open field, can kill you in one with soft blocks. Power Zone sped up the process seeing as everyone would eventually get those powerups anyway.
_________________ Hudson's Bomberman: 1 of the top 10 game franchises of all time.
Wait, Power Zone.... you are talking about the stage where everyone gets all powerups, right? Or are you talking about one of those stages where everyone has full speed?
Nevertheless, what I'm trying to say is that full power stages are a good test of skill, but a different KIND of skill. Full power stages are more "up in your face", because everyone is racing around attacking each other throughout the whole thing, while modes with lots of soft blocks tend to go slower, as the playing field is rather small and gradually expanding, so there are different opportunities to attack in either mode. Eventually, you'll probably get a regular stage clear of most or all soft blocks, but by then most of the time at least one or two people have already been killed, and now you've got to try to defeat the other player(s) with whatever powerups you have now. Because if you're just good at playing full power stages, then if you're left with just a kick or something, or nothing at all, you can't just go around chucking, kicking, punching bombs, overusing the line bomb, and all that other stuff.
Power Zone wasn't even though. If done correctly, one player can get the majority of the items if not all. Say myself, you, and some other people were playing together. If I got the majority of the items, I would obviously have a huge advantage. While it would sitll be possible to kill me (as I've killed people before with no items in the Bomberman multiplayer universe) it still would be difficult, and I'd easily have the edge in battle.
I do like Power Zone, but it's not a very fair stage that often. While full-power battles can be fun, Power Zone isn't the most fair stage for that type of fight.
I'm not sure how much you have played on Stage 9 in Super Bomberman 2, but it is a reasonablely balanced level. There is only one Power Bomb on the stage yes, but there are enough decent items on the map to balance it out. Plus with the arrows, you can use the level strategically for kicking bombs which is a plus.
Also, this isn't very important as to why I like the stage, but it looks awesome as well.
Edit: I apoligise Ven, I had mixed up Duel Zone and Power Zone. You can pretty much forget most of the stuff I have said the past few days.
Wait, Power Zone.... you are talking about the stage where everyone gets all powerups, right? Or are you talking about one of those stages where everyone has full speed?
Nevertheless, what I'm trying to say is that full power stages are a good test of skill, but a different KIND of skill. Full power stages are more "up in your face", because everyone is racing around attacking each other throughout the whole thing, while modes with lots of soft blocks tend to go slower, as the playing field is rather small and gradually expanding, so there are different opportunities to attack in either mode. Eventually, you'll probably get a regular stage clear of most or all soft blocks, but by then most of the time at least one or two people have already been killed, and now you've got to try to defeat the other player(s) with whatever powerups you have now. Because if you're just good at playing full power stages, then if you're left with just a kick or something, or nothing at all, you can't just go around chucking, kicking, punching bombs, overusing the line bomb, and all that other stuff.
Like I said earlier, if someone can kill you pretty consistently in an open field, making the field more enclosed doesn't change that fact. Vice Versa does not apply in this situation.
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