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From Topic: Inafune quits Capcom
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Soniti 254
Bomberjack

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Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 734
Post#41  Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:56 pm  Reply with quote + 
Warning, big ass post.

Duke Serkol wrote:
Soniti 254 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the only reason Duo was put in was 1) to promote Mega Man 8, and 2) to add an additional playable character in the game. Because of the nature of the game, he really didn't need to make an appearance in the game. He was thrown in to add more spice to the original game's formula and separate the sequel from the original more easily.

Yes, however none of that necessarily implies his story to be inconsequential.

I don't disagree with this. I'm mostly trying to point out that he was only really added to make the game more colorful and give the player more options.

Duke Serkol wrote:
Soniti 254 wrote:
I personally don't think a Mega Man fighting game should be considered canon, or it should at least be taken very lightly. I sure wouldn't take these game's plots very seriously, as the games didn't even have a real plot as far as I know. It's just an even more basic and watered down version of "Wily's up to no good again, stop him".

Different game mechanics do not equate to non canon. And though the game may start out with only as much plot as Megaman 2 did, the multiple endings are much more elaborate than nearly anything else we had in the classic series.

Whether it's a fighting game or a racing game or a party game or whatever wasn't my point. I'm just saying that, since it isn't played anything like the original games at all, I'd take the game's story very lightly and I wouldn't really consider what happens in these games as canon. If anything, I'd say that maybe what's revealed in the endings are canon, but not nessicarly the rest of the game itself.

Duke Serkol wrote:
Soniti 254 wrote:
Really, the only thing that's revealed in these games is that Zero was made by Wily (although it was hinted at in X4 and X5 covered this in greater detail) and he brought up this "secret project" (and this is just incredibly vague and, as far as we know, it could have just been hinting at a new Mega Man game altogether). And it's just featured in Bass's ending in the second game to boot. So I'm not really following with just how "plot heavy" these games are.

Firstly, this was the first time Protoman and Bass took a really active role in opposing Wily. That, in and of its own, is a significant plot development, especially since Bass was made by Wily. Secondly, you did not mention several important things. Megaman's ending in Power Battles shows us the moment Light realizes he needs to create a robot capable of making its own decisions. Protoman's Ending in Power Fighters reveals he has a fatal flaw that will eventually kill him. And of course, the fact that Duo can sense evil energy from deep space, which we cannot discount as non-canon just because his presence in the game could only be a way to promote MM8 (don't get me wrong, it totally was meant to do that, but as said before it doesn't necessarily have to be only for that and make his story rubbish by default)
Finally, considering that, as you point out, X4 had already revealed a connection between Zero and Wily as well as the Maverick Virus, believing that Wily's other project brought up in the same speech ha makes about Zero is anything but the virus seems excessive caution to me.
All the more so when in Power Battles Wily only decides (like Light decides to make a self determined robot) to make a stronger robot to defeat both Megaman and Bass, whereas in this one, the game with space robot Duo coming back to hunt for Evil Energy, he now has blueprints and also brings up this other project

I haven't played those games in a long time, so my apologies on missing those bits on the endings. Still, did we really need to know when Light decided to make X? Was it really nessicary to reveal that Proto Man has error that will eventually kill him? Did Wily have to tell Bass he was planning on making a robot even more powerful than him (Zero)? Not really. I'm just saying that most of the stuff that was revealed in this game was stuff that, by the time we officially got the game, it was stuff that fans of the series would generally already know of anyway.

Duke Serkol wrote:
Soniti 254 wrote:
Let's face it, Power Fighters/Battle was a fan service game in just about every sense of the term. They are games that were made pretty much exclusively with their fans in mind, and I doubt a lot of non fans would've played this.

And that makes it somehow non-canon? Because it was aimed at the only people that actually care about canon in the first place?

No, but I don't think the games' plot made much of an impact on the MM storyline, if at all. I also doubt that a lot of Mega Man fans played it for the plot in the first place.

Duke Serkol wrote:
Soniti 254 wrote:
This comparison doesn't really work because, as far as I know, none of the Zelda games are connected in any way besides sharing characters, themes, and settings. So, in a sense, there is no real canon in the Zelda franchise (I hear people have tried making a timeline to connect the games and make sense of it, but it's just a huge mess. And I'm pretty sure Nintendo even said "he's not the same Link", which further nulls any possibility of the games being connected).

Ok, I'm sorry to say but you clearly don't know enough of the subject matter here. It's not that you are obliged to of course, but you can't shoot down my parallel there without that knowledge.
The Zelda series works like this: every one or two games Nintendo makes a new Link that lives in the same world but in a different age than the previous ones. Early games in the series had very loose connections and this is why there's all that timeline theorizing going on. The 3D games, on the other hand, have clear and definite ties to one another. Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker all are tied back to the events of Ocarina of Time, whereas Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks tie in with those of The Wind Waker.
All these connections are set in stone, even though the only games out of those that feature the same Link are respectively Ocarina of Time-Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker-Phantom Hourlgass. Similarly Adventure of Link continues the story of the first Link we've known from where the original Legend of Zelda on NES had left it.
So yeah, Zelda canon is a reality and Nintendo has confirmed several times that they have some big complex document to keep track of it. They apparently prefer to keep it for themselves because they realize a lot of fans continue to be interested in the games also (if not mostly) because they can nerd out over whether Ocarina of Time is still the "Seal War" of A Link to the Past's backstory or not.

I'm not the biggest Zelda fan ever, so I wouldn't know much about these games. I already know that some Zelda games are indeed connected, but I also know that not all of them are (directly connected, I mean). If they all are trully connected as you say (I'm not dismissing what you say, you seem to know more then I do on this), then the connections these games do have isn't really apparent, which is probably why I simply think of them as not being connected (which, in a way, I am correct).

Regulus 777 wrote:
I dunno Duke Serkol, you're pushing all this stuff so much that it sounds to me like every Megaman related thing put out by Capcom HAS to be canon no matter what, in your mindset. Like there's just no possible way that it couldn't be in the slightest despite any possible argument.

I suppose you'd like to inform us all about the great significance of Megaman Soccer and Megaman Battle and Chase as well?

Sometimes companies do make something as a spin off or just for fan service with no original intent of having it canon. Perhaps after the fact they come up with ways to link it together be it for fun or just trying to please people like you amongst the fan base, but it's very possible that somebody at Capcom just said one day, "Hey! Wouldn't Rockman fans just love a Rockman fighting game? Let's make one. Throw in lots of characters! Let's make Protoman Bass etc. playable. It'll make us a lot of money!" and they may have come up with an interesting story for it but was it really intended to be connected? It seems like it was all connected as an afterthought to me.

I dunno, that's just my opinion. As for what I personally believe, as much as I enjoyed the stories of some of the games, particularly some of the X games It's just such a mess between bringing this guy back for this reason and whatever else may happen that doesn't seem to make any sense I just don't really care anymore. I like mega man games cause they are fun to play, have great music and cool looking characters. I'm not too worried about where this complex, plot hole patched, story is going, as long as it still delivers on the other fronts.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to dismiss your opinion or anything here. You've provided a great argument but I don't think continuing this discussion is really gonna do much else for us...

If I'm wrong then whatevs. Feel free to continue but I've been watching you guys go back and forth for awhile now and it just seems like you've hit a dead end. Neither of you seem like you're gonna budge.

This pretty much wraps how I feel on the matter as well. I only started getting into this indepth conversation with him because I found this to be thoughtful, insightful, and amusing (in a good way).
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